Jonathan Williams (left) and James Bull attending Friday night's kiss-in. Pic: BBC
For all the undeniable advances of the past few decades, just how comfortable can beer lovers who happen not to be heterosexual really afford to feel when out enjoying a drink in a “straight” pub, even in a big and cosmopolitan city like London? This question has been on my mind over the past few months as I’ve been putting together my forthcoming guidebook to London beer, but the news over the past few days that two gay men had been expelled from a Soho pub for kissing each other has brought it sharply into focus.
I ended up putting two gay pubs in the book (The CAMRA Guide to London’s Best Beer, Pubs and Bars — see under London above) because I was keen to reflect the diversity of London’s pub culture as much as I could as a secondary mission to celebrating good beer. As most LGBT beer fans will know, London’s gay pubs aren’t exactly overflowing with craft beer, but with the help of an old friend I found a couple I was happy with. The last thing I wanted to do was discourage anyone of any sexuality from visiting any of the other places in the book and enjoying the true diversity of London’s beer.
Introducing the first of my “out” choices, I pointed out the dearth of gay pubs serving good beer, and commented: “Perhaps things will change if the development of a more youthful image for good beer continues, or perhaps as attitudes have grown ever more tolerant and people of all sexualities feel more relaxed in mixed company, there’s no need for a fine range of ales to be tagged with a rainbow flag. I hope that lesbian and gay readers, like me, will feel able to enjoy a beer in any place in this book.”
I confess to feeling slightly uncomfortable as I wrote these words. Yes, as a gay man, I do feel able to enjoy a drink in pretty much every decent beer outlet I’ve found in London, and certainly everywhere in the book. But I’m not so sure I’d be happy to express my affection openly to my partner in all of them, in the same way that straight customers do without a thought. A handful of venues spring to mind in the book where I’d be extremely wary of doing this if I wanted a peaceful drink — particularly some places that I admire in all sorts of other ways for being unpretentious, old fashioned local boozers of the sort that are becoming increasingly rare. I contemplated reflecting some of this in the book, but concluded it wasn’t entirely appropriate, especially considering the already lengthy word count. And I could trust most of my LGBT readers to pick up potential issues anyway — we’re all too used to being sensitive and discreet.
Then, the day after I signed off the final text, the news of the John Snow incident emerged to drive home the point. For those who haven’t followed the story, on Wednesday evening (13 April 2011) James Bull and Jonathan Williams, both in their 20s, went out on a first date in Soho. Though in an area full of gay venues, they opted instead to visit the John Snow, a smallish and fairly standard Samuel Smith pub in Broadwick Street, for the sort of reasons that anyone might choose a pub — they liked the cider stocked at Sam’s pubs and appreciated the generally cheap prices. But when the pair started kissing — in a relatively chaste and inoffensive way, according to bystanders — they first attracted complaints from a man drinking at a nearby table who claimed to be the landlord, and were then asked to leave by a female staff member, who accused them of behaving obscenely.
In a fine example of how a small incident affecting hitherto obscure individuals can quickly take on much wider resonance in our socially networked world, the two men’s unpleasant experience became a news story after Jonathan’s disgruntled tweet about it “went viral”, eventually being picked up by the BBC and the Guardian. Prominent gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell offered his support. On Friday a hastily organised kiss-in at the pub attracted 300 people, and messages of support from a variety of groups including even the Conservative party gay group. Predictably, the pub played safe and closed its doors, so the event took place outside. Another has been called for Thursday.
Journalists’ sympathies for the couple were bolstered when approaches to the pub itself for comment were met with a hostile response, culminating in threats to report people for harassment if they continued to call. The landlord allegedly told one enquirer unapologetically that he could kick people out if he wished. The pub’s owners, fiercely independent and slightly eccentric Yorkshire brewery Samuel Smith, have also refused to comment so far — no surprise to beer writers as they’re well-known for their lack of media friendliness, and are no doubt all at sea in trying to cope with this unwanted attention. Their reaction contrasts with that of pub owning company Punch Taverns, who were involved in a comparable incident last summer when members of a Labour Party LGBT Group were refused service at the Greencoat Boy in Westminster — the pubco quickly apologised.
The legal situation is interesting. Licensees do indeed have the discretion to exclude anyone from their premises, but they musn’t discriminate on the grounds of sexuality in the provision of services. If a case was brought under the Equality Act, the pub would have to prove it treated heterosexual couples in the same way. And while it’s possible staff are equally squeamish about snogging straight couples, it’s rather unlikely.
In some respects this incident seems relatively minor — there are arguably more pernicious forms of discrimination and certainly much more serious outcomes of individual homophobia, such as the brutal murder of Ian Baynham in Trafalgar Square in October 2009. But the way James and Jonathan were apparently treated in the John Snow, and the discomfort I felt when writing the lines quoted above, demonstrate in a very significant and intimate way just how far we still have to go to achieve true equality in our everyday lives.
Expressing affection in public, within reasonable limits, is something that heterosexual people take for granted, and quite rightly, as the affectionate bonds we form with others are at the core of our humanity. For gay men, and others whose relationships don’t conform to the traditional stereotypes, it’s constantly in the back of our minds that such an apparently natural act could provoke hostility and even violence. Seeing this demonstrated in the apparently convivial atmosphere of a pub selling craft beer sadly reminds me that, no matter how much as a gay man I value beer and pubs, I remain an emotional second class citizen in most of them, forever feeling circumspect about things that others are openly able to express. And that’s why we still need places like the two gay pubs listed in my book.
Luckily I didn’t include the Snow in my book, but a couple of other Sam’s places are in there. I hope that James and Jonathan pursue their complaint against Sam’s as far as they can and hopefully exact at least an apology, which may discourage other places from behaving similarly. In the meantime, wouldn’t it be great if some of London’s many other “straight” pubs made a point of welcoming kissing couples of any gender? Particularly the ones that do good beer.
Read more about this story:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13103647
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/15/john-snow-kiss-in-london?INTCMP=SRCH
http://londonist.com/2011/04/gay-couple-removed-from-a-soho-pub-for-kissing.php
http://www.petertatchell.net/lgbt_rights/homophobia/pub-ban-on-gay-kisses-is-illegal-under-equality-laws.htm
While, clearly, it’s extremely unlikely this incident would have escalated had the kissers been a heterosexual couple, I’m not sure I’d support the idea of snogging being acceptable in a pub between any couple, straight or gay.
Whats the definition of a queer. A man who puts his snogging before his real ale.
Seriously, as a gay man I love my real ale as like you, never in a jug.
I used to drink John Smiths bitter, in the 70s when it was hard to get in London. Now there is far to great a choice of much better bitters.
I could become a complete slut for a pint of Abbotts LOL!
@Martyn – Why? I for one find people’s attutude toward sex and sexuality as something ‘dirty’ to be ashamed of really quite difficult to understand, and counterproductive when it comes to LGBT rights, sex education, the promotion of safer sex, and general well being. And just on a logical level – (almost) everyone’s doing it, or thinging about it – yet people continually try and pretend the opposite. What’s that about? I think if people where honest with themselves and everyone else, then we’d live in a far safer and happier world.
I havent got involved in all the furore over this yet But i feel as a Gay man That the Brewery Samuel smiths should be Suspending the Manager and Holding a whole review of the situation.
As a lover of the sam Smiths OB …. i hope they do get this sorted and soon. Coz the last thing i wanna be doing is Boycotting their pubs coz of the price being cheap.
Just my Cents worth!
Martyn – I had that thought too; I have been annoyed in the past by straight couples getting affectionate in pubs. But on reflection this actually supports Des’s position: I might be irritated by a couple snogging, but I’d never dream of complaining about it, and I’d be incensed if they were asked to leave because of it. It’s the difference between welcoming something and accepting it – you don’t need to tolerate something if you like it!
The pub’s owners, fiercely independent and slightly eccentric Yorkshire brewery Samuel Smith, have also refused to comment so far
Somewhat of an understatement IMO, they can even make it sound like you have insulted them by offering them free beer festival tickets.
I’m not a Samuel Smiths fan, but I’d be seriously worried if they’d got kicked out of a Wetherspoons and the company showed signs of dragging their feet in responding. A boycott would put a severe kink in my drinking enjoyment.
I kiss men and women in pubs in an affectionate way, and I like seeing that in others. However, I’m not comfortable with seeing mouth to mouth, full on snogging, touching of private parts, or displays of too much flesh in either men or women in pubs. I wouldn’t object to it, but like pubs with loud music, too much sweat or greasy chips, torn seating, I would avoid that place in future, seeking out venues where I feel more comfortable. In the same way, if you are the sort of person who likes snogging in public, going topless, farting loudly and laughing, etc, then you would go to the sorts of pubs where that thing is either tolerated or even encouraged.
While this is clearly a homophobic incident, I do think that Jonathan Williams and James Bull behaved inappropriately and encouraged the incident. They went into a clearly traditional – and slightly rough – pub. They snogged openly, and were asked to stop. They continued. They were asked to stop again. They got up (they said they were leaving at this point) and kissed again – this time more chastely, but in the circumstances clearly a provocative act, especially as they were now standing. They were now asked to leave.
They themselves know what their motives were, but that appears to me to be behaviour out of the ordinary. It could be that they were simply caught up in the excitement of their first date – didn’t quite realise where they were (or didn’t care) – and when somebody complained, they got a rush of blood to the head, and decided to confront the issue by carrying on. Nobody emerges from this incident looking good.
We should all be more tolerant of others, and that includes listening when someone says they feel uncomfortable with what you are doing. Asking somebody to leave because they are gay is wrong. Asking somebody to stop erotic (rather than family) kissing is a much greyer area. Asking somebody to leave when they persist in an activity they have been asked to stop doing is “probably” appropriate, as otherwise the situation might escalate.
My local gay pub (The Regent) in Edinburgh is in the GBG and has been described as straight friendly (as well as dog friendly).
I don’t think anybody blinks an eyelid at people of whatever gender or sexuality having a kiss and a cuddle – I always think it’s nice to see people enjoying themselves.
@Steve, to repeat Phil’s position: I find anyone laying into another’s tonsils (especially with sound effects) unpleasant, just as I find loud and excessive swearing obnoxious. But I can’t say that I would want to complain.
We can be fairly sure that it wasn’t just because they were two men kissing. I cannot think of an instance where a man and a woman kissing has provoked a complaint (and I used to work behind the bar and in the cellar of a large, busy and traditional pub).
To talk about provoking a response is a bit like saying that I, being transgendered, deserved the abuse I received from the two Asian louts out of the window of their car on the Euston Road last night. I will continue to be me, regardless of the provocative effective it has on bigots. Funnily enough, my flatemate told me that perhaps it wasn’t a good idea to join her at her local boozer, “because the guys in there might be funny about it.” One of these days, being me might actually escalate into someone beating me up: perhaps that’ll be my fault.
So long as it’s a matter of “I don’t like those two blokes kissing” rather than “I cannot stand the sound of anyone’s tongue swirling around another person’s mouth”, I would support the right of lovers to kiss – whoever and wherever they are.
[…] the “rules” when it’s two gay men. Sorry. And, as this beer blogger points out, maybe they went in there because that pub has a better choice of ciders and they like the reasonable…, as opposed to many gay pubs that have abysmal taste in booze and crazy expensive drinks to […]